Need treatment suggestion

[johnvh]

hello all

my best friend of 15+ years - I'll refer to him as T - is a herion addict. for the last 6 years or so, he has gone through periods and cycles of using and quitting - he has quit a total of 4 times or so, and recently started using again. when he uses, he uses hard (multiple times per day), but when he quits he seemingly does very well. during these last seven years, his longest period of sobriety has been about 18 months.

me, and about 8 other very close friends of his put together an intervention last night that resulted in a lot of tears, T genuinely committing to another shot at sobriety, and all of us admitting that we will all do whatever it takes to help him.

there is no question that he can detox and stop using for short periods of time. eventually, he has always broke down and relapsed though. I dont pretend to know how tough this is or what he is really going through, but I do know that it is extremely difficult for him.

I think the problem is that he does not have a lot going for him right now. he does not have a college education, and has a drug felony on his criminal record.

Can anybody suggest some good long term treatment facilities? preferably one where T could learn a trade or other career skills, and therefore have something to look forward to? Anywhere in the US would be great.

thanks in advance

[james]

hello all

my best friend of 15+ years - I'll refer to him as T - is a herion addict. for the last 6 years or so, he has gone through periods and cycles of using and quitting - he has quit a total of 4 times or so, and recently started using again. when he uses, he uses hard (multiple times per day), but when he quits he seemingly does very well. during these last seven years, his longest period of sobriety has been about 18 months.

me, and about 8 other very close friends of his put together an intervention last night that resulted in a lot of tears, T genuinely committing to another shot at sobriety, and all of us admitting that we will all do whatever it takes to help him.

there is no question that he can detox and stop using for short periods of time. eventually, he has always broke down and relapsed though. I dont pretend to know how tough this is or what he is really going through, but I do know that it is extremely difficult for him.

I think the problem is that he does not have a lot going for him right now. he does not have a college education, and has a drug felony on his criminal record.

Can anybody suggest some good long term treatment facilities? preferably one where T could learn a trade or other career skills, and therefore have something to look forward to? Anywhere in the US would be great.

thanks in advance

I do not know the US scene, so I can only give you very general advice. You may want to go here:

http://www.addictionsearch.com/treatment_facilities.html

This will give a list of treatment centres. It also has a free phone facility that you may wish to try.

Good luck!

[jade]

Has your friend looked into methadone as a treatment, or suboxone? I don't know much about the suboxone, but the methadone, while still an extremely addictive drug, is administered in a controlled environment, with counseling/UA's/etc. It has worked for me, and I was in a similar situation. It would be great if opiate addicts could just get clean and stay that way, but it doesn't seem to work for most. That's why ongoing opiate maintenance might be an option for your friend..

[exjunky]

Everybody is different but I'll stand behind jade's suggestion for suboxone. It has worked a miracle on me. My habit was about as bad as anybody's habit I've ever known -- some days shooting up 10 times.

Now I haven't touched an opiate in about 2-3 weeks (not counting suboxone) and don't even have cravings to use again. No withdrawal symptoms either, except for those first two days when I made the transition.

I have also used methadone and that's not a bad idea (I got cleaned up with a methadone program once) but in this modern age I would say that methadone should only be used in cases where suboxone fails.

[jade]

ex-junky-
when you decided to use the suboxone treatment, did you go straight from using dope to the suboxone, or were you on the methadone??
I'm on the methadone program, and I've heard that you have to be in withdrawl to start suboxone or it throws you into withdrawl or something along these lines..
I have asked my counselor about it and he tells me that it wouldn't be a good idea for me for various reasons, and won't give me a whole lot of info about it... everything else i've read just goes on about the wonder's that it has worked.. Can you give me a run-down of how it works??? And how it's paid for?? I work for an insurance company, and we had a member that was trying to get it covered (it's a non-covered med) and no matter how much information his Dr sent in, the pharm department said no way.. He ultimately ended up back on methadone because insurance covers that as a generic medication. (most insurance)
Any information would be helpful!

[exjunky]

ex-junky-
when you decided to use the suboxone treatment, did you go straight from using dope to the suboxone, or were you on the methadone??
I'm on the methadone program, and I've heard that you have to be in withdrawl to start suboxone or it throws you into withdrawl or something along these lines..
I have asked my counselor about it and he tells me that it wouldn't be a good idea for me for various reasons, and won't give me a whole lot of info about it... everything else i've read just goes on about the wonder's that it has worked.. Can you give me a run-down of how it works??? And how it's paid for?? I work for an insurance company, and we had a member that was trying to get it covered (it's a non-covered med) and no matter how much information his Dr sent in, the pharm department said no way.. He ultimately ended up back on methadone because insurance covers that as a generic medication. (most insurance)
Any information would be helpful!

I went straight from dope to suboxone, and huge doses too. The first time I was hooked (20 years ago) I did the methadone thing. Methadone is a horrible way to detox, very painful, and you still find yourself stuck in the cycle of craving opiates, getting high, craving, high, craving, high, etc.

I can't tell you how it's paid for by insurance because I paid out pocket. Between the doctor and the pills themselves, all told it cost me about $1200. But when you're spending $100-$200/daily on dope that's not such a big expense. Looking back, that decision has already saved me thousands.

Here's the rundown.

First you have to go into pretty bad withdrawal. For me that took 36 hours. There is a special problem with methadone users, because since methadone lasts so damn long in your system you might have to go longer than 36 hours. And methadone withdrawal is horrible. That's why many doctors want to first do a rapid detox on your methadone, e.g. from 100mg daily to 30mg daily, then to clean you out for 2-3 days, then to switch to suboxone.

In my case though it only took 36 hours to get the sniffles, shakes, goosebumps, aches, etc. At that point I was starting to hurt bad and ready for my first dose of subs.

The first dose made me feel WORSE. If you are going to fail on subs this is when you'll fail. First impressions are so important, you know?

The second dose didn't help, but didn't make things worse. That was just a few hours after my first dose.

A few hours after that I took my third dose and amazingly I got drowsy. (Understand I had been up for 48 hours sleepless in withdrawal.) And I went home and crashed. And when I woke up, I was a new man. No withdrawal, but what's even more amazing, no cravings to use dope.

By "dope" I mean hydromorphone (my #1 drug of choice) but also heroin. But for our purposes "dope" is any full opiate agonist like that, including methadone and oxycodone.

Also amazing about suboxone is how you can reduce your dosage without discomfort. Going from 16mg to 2mg was a cakewalk, it's not like methadone where every time they reduce your dosage you feel suicidal.

I hope this info helps you and others.

[ShunRudig]

It's hard, but you can't cure him/her. There are as many paths to recovery as there are addicts trying to recover. If he/she is will, you might want to help them get into a treatment facility, but make absolutely sure that they subscribe to a continuing recovery program, like NA. It's good to have that continuing support.

And, oh yeah, they have to want it for themselves...period.

[cleanmeanfightingmach]

Hi, i also was a heroin user and have been clean for 4 months! I also had quit multiple times and ended up relapseing. I quit 3 or 4 times cold turkey and after a few weeks i always went back. Even tho you suffer threw withdrawl for some stupid reason people tend to relapse. so after going back on h for the 4th time i ended up going to a outpatient suboxone clinic. Where the doctor obviously perscribed suboxone to me, This really is a miracle pill. It takes all cravings and withdrawl symptoms away in about 15-20 minutes and you feel normal. It doesnt get you high but you just feel like a normal person and stop thinking about how your going to get high. I would HIGHLY RECOMEND YOUR FRIEND T TOO GO TO ONE OF THESE OUT PATIENT DOCTORS. OF COURSE THERE are very strict regualtions you must follow if you want to stay on the suboxone. HOWEVER THIS OUT PATIENT IS VERY EXPENSIVE AND NOOOOOOO INSURANCE WILL COVER IT.. SO THE FIRST VISIT IS AROUND 250$ AND 65$ EVERY VISIT AFTER THAT. DONT FORGET! THE PILLS COST 7.50$ EACH. i am only taking one pill a day but if u figure it out its about $200 a month in perscription. it gets pricey but i think its worth every penny! some doctors may cost less or more i guess it depends on your area. But its a suggestion and it has helped me tramendously!@@!!!@